ADHD at Work

What’s the big deal with “one size fits all”?

Sometimes I truly struggle with especially because we work in an industry where there is a major age gap and a technology sort of split, right? And it’s sort of like you come, you’ve worked with these people who’ve worked in a generation that they’re like, “don’t ask questions, get the job done. And if you do anything stupid, you buy it.” Where we come in and we make constant mistakes. You know, we do all of these things, you know, we’ve got technology happening, a lot more pressure, but still we are measured with the same stick.

And it really baffles me that the processes that we were doing 30-40 years ago, we are still doing now. Why? When things have changed so drastically and why are we all defaulting into just that one? It works for all, one size fits all. I fail to understand how that works. And I feel a lot of businesses who think in a “one size fits all”, they’re really shooting themselves in the foot because it’s not going to last very long.

You might get a few years out of it now but after that, that’s it mate, you’re chopped liver. I look at the MBA that I’m currently doing and how its structured and I’m thinking “Good grief, like yes, okay, you’ve removed exams. Fantastic, wonderful. It really works for me, but how are we? How are we measuring people by essays how, why aren’t we doing more practical things?”

Because in a classroom for three hours a night, eight weeks, and we’re expected to learn and cram everything about economics? No, mate your, your choking, your choking, but it’s so hard and because we’re all stuck in this whole vicious cycle of, “it’s worked for us in the past will continue to work for us now. It’s not.”

So, you were a flight attendant before this graphic design role?

You know, it’s funny because when I was at my first print job, I was so… because I couldn’t figure out what I was doing wrong, where I was constantly making mistakes. I was constantly being put under these pressures with minimal support, again with the whole presumption that I could handle it. But, again, I’m not truly diagnosed as an ADHD person, but I feel that I was was presenting that way, but I could not for the life of me figure it out until… because at the time, I didn’t know how to process pressure, and I didn’t know how to sort of put the puzzle together in that sense. So when I finally moved jobs, those pieces started to come together for me in a different way. So I moved from a graphic design job to a flight attendant job back to a graphic design job. And it was those coping mechanisms between those two jobs that have helped me now in the sense that like, I know how to deal with pressure now because I don’t know maybe came with age or maturity and a lot of failure at the beginning. My little quick fail, my little eight years of trial and error has brought me to a position where I am comfortable, or I have a capacity enabled to reflect on what’s working, what’s not working, why it’s not working.

What allows people with ADHD to thrive in the work environment?

I don’t think it’s something that’s in the forefront of everyone’s mind. When you walk into a workspace you just can see, you don’t, everyone looks the same. So everyone is considered to be normal. I think for someone with ADHD going into the workplace, I feel having a very good relationship with your manager or your boss or your leader or whoever it is. To be able to be… to be able to say “Hey, I’m actually not coping, and I know I work better this way. How can we do together?” Because if it’s not addressed, it will always be swept under the carpet. And without us actually stepping forward taking that first step and saying, you know this, “this environment isn’t working for me, but you know, as someone who I trust, and hopefully will support me, how can we work together because I’m, I bring value.” I mean, you wouldn’t be hired if you wouldn’t bring some kind of value into the business by helping us thrive. I feel that you can only reach for the stars with that sort of thing. Help properly utilize me by helping me work in a way that benefits both of us. But I feel that conversation needs to start from us first. Because again, everyone will just assume that you work like everyone else.

Before Elbe said anything about her dyslexia and her ADHD. People probably just thought she was, you know, being erratic, emotional, lazy. You don’t think these are the first things that I think that people think about you know, and it’s not… that’s not the case. You are coming at me 100 miles an hour with several different things all at the same time, and you expect me to deliver? I don’t think it’s gonna work for us. But again, because she’s open about other people to think, “Oh, okay. I won’t yell at her from across the room and ask her for something. I’ll actually walk up to her and actually have a proper conversation like a human being, you know? I won’t just assume that people have things in order, you know? Communication, calling them, “Hey, how’s it going? What’s happening? Do you wanna tell me anything? Do you want to, you know, where are you at? You know, where are we with this project? Do you need any help? Well, you know, is there something that I can help you with, you know?

Overcoming failure and being content with being different.

It’s that “being okay with failure”, right? it’s, it’s, oh, it is all of that. It’s, you know, I’m not going to think like everyone else. I’m not going to get the work done like everyone else, you know, but it’s fine. We found a way so far, what’s…. Why not now? But it’s sort of like “no, no, no, no. Wait, wait guys, please.

But yeah, I think and that’s I think that’s the beauty of it. it’s the… I love the fact that I can think differently. I love the fact that I can constantly find solutions, or, you know, I’m constantly looking for solutions, I’m constantly looking for new ways of doing things because you know we’re only as good as what we are now.

How do employers initiate safe conversations?

I’ve been really lucky that the people that I’ve always been with have always been open to discussing changes or discussing, you know, ways we can make things better because I think from their perspective, if we’re working better, we’re adding more value.

I feel like there’s… I feel like there’s two different problems. There’s the management problem and then there’s the leadership problem. Where if you address the leadership problem, then management will have things in place that allows people to thrive to be able to ask those questions, having that leadership, a proper leadership person in place where they are building those relationships with these people because it’s not just neurodivergent people. It’s everyone else in your team. If you can talk to the neurotypical people, when you can’t talk to your neurodivergent people, that says a lot about your leadership style, that you’re only willing to talk to people that work like you but you’re not willing to talk to people that don’t like you. And if they’re not finding ways in order to include both of them, I feel that’s where the breakdown happens.

And a lot of the times you do find that, I don’t know how to explain it, but you tend…. In these situations where the neurodivergent person is ignored, it’s mainly a man from a management point of view. There is no leadership because management…

It’s like you read it from a book, you know, it’s okay “XYZ is done. You’re out.” You know, whereas if a proper leader was put in place, it was like, okay, “XYZ isn’t there, but how can we, how can we do this? How can we put A and B together to make this work for both of us?” And that’s how I think… Where the problem lies, where it can be fixed. And I think if organizations wanting to really get to know that people and really get to the bottom of things, it’s engaging those at the top, those leaders to then be able to give the people who work under them the tools in order to then include everyone else.

What do you mean by “Coping mechanisms” in the context of your work?

At work and my current job, I have a standing desk and I know when I am not performing to the best of my abilities, and it’s as simple as standing for 30 minutes, that will change my environment a little bit, you know? So it’s pulling myself out of whatever is, you know, is causing me to have a little minor freakout or being overwhelmed, and being able to then continue on with the work or driving through. It’s either me stepping away for five minutes, it is me then having to lay everything. Put them in really small jobs and give myself like a little game. Like we will scan 300 photos but we’ll only do it in you know, little… We’ll put all will separate the photos to landscape and then portrait and then that way I can just smash it out one after the other, one after, then I’ll have a break and then I’ll come back and do it.

So I guess for most people, they can smash out three scanning 300 photos in one sitting but for me in order for me to stay engaged, I have to like, make things really small for me. But that takes a lot of mental capacity to be able to do that. But I think the more I do it, the more I learn about, you know… Yes, it works for me or not. That job was just shit. Don’t worry about it. We’ll just continue on. I think I’m old enough to now know that even though, if I continue to fail. I’m not sort of stuck in the hole. “Oh shit, I’m just stupid”. Or, you know, “why can’t I just be like everyone else and just sit down and actually do the work.” You know, sort of like “meh we’ll get there.” We’ll get to be eventually you know, just chillax. Like you know, enjoy the ride. But that’s how I do it. So breaking every, if it’s a massive job breaking it down in certain, in little – little bite sized pieces and then try and reorganize it.

I also love lists. Lists are my best friend. So I will write everything down and then I’ll just cross them off when I can. And it’s really good for when I am stuck on tick tock. I don’t know how I got there. I look back to my list and think “ah, that’s what I was supposed to do. Great. Okay, here we go.”

Yeah, and I think if, if ever I deviate from the work that I’m supposed to do. I feel that I’m just coping with all that’s happening at the same time. I probably don’t show it as much as other people. But I do get quite overwhelmed when I have three different people asking me for something. I’m just finishing an email and also exporting a photo tribute and also making a change to a, to a to a photo somewhere else. And I’ve got someone who’s waiting to have a conversation with me about a funeral, that’s maybe a job that’s like three days down the track and it’s sort of like okay, so how do we break these down into bite sized pieces and I find what I’m doing a lot now is taking Instead of lumping everything into a big job is I’ll address one person as one job. So I’ll push everything aside. I’ll talk to this person. And then once that’s resolved, push that to the side and to the next one and to the next one.

It takes me a lot longer to get my shit done. But that’s another way that I compartmentalize my stress.

If I can only do that to my personal life, so, I am not as organized at home. My room is an absolute mess. Yes. Okay, I’ll put it, I’ll make a list and clean my shit, but there is no urgency. You know, there is no accountability. I will sleep in my filth. I will, you know, work through my filth, it’s fine. But in my office, there’s a lot more structure and there’s a lot more people riding on the things that I’m doing so I’m a lot more attentive to that, but if it comes to personal stuff, “let’s relax, chill, you know, why was stressing here we only stress at work, it’s fine.” As my house is burning, like, “this is fine. This is fine.”

What was your experience like entering the workforce?

My first graphic design job, and it’s not until I reflected now, that I see how my brain didn’t necessarily work in an office setting, or I had to really sit down and make… put a structure in place where I wasn’t constantly procrastinating. I’ll get to stages where there would be so much work due that I didn’t know what to do with myself and I find that I would… Jobs that were urgent, I wasn’t doing it as fast as jobs that weren’t urgent. I didn’t know how to prioritize. I was always going for the easiest work to do at that point in time instead of actually sitting down creating a plan and saying, “No, I have to do this, this this and this first.” Or if there was an easy job that I could do within five minutes be able to slot that in between jobs. But I found when I was working my first working experience I would make constant mistakes and it was small mistakes where I would overlook a spelling mistake or I would put in the wrong code for something and it felt daunting because all I could see was mistake after mistake after mistake. And I couldn’t pull myself out of that rut until I changed my career altogether. So I went from graphic designing and then I went to flight attendant which again, I thrived because it was face to face conversations. It was working with my hands. It was actually doing things rather than sitting in front of a computer and constantly chugging out spreadsheet after spreadsheet or design after design and trying to remember a code for something that you know, I just couldn’t remember or you know, it had to take me going through sheets of paper to then find the answer that I was looking for whether… compared to, you know, just me being on the day being able to handle things. You know, as a, as something completely different.

What’s your experience like with imposter syndrome? [Part 1]

I constantly have imposter syndrome, if that’s, if that’s, if that’s a thing to add to that.

I’m constantly either overachieving or doing things that I’ll constantly put myself out to then show people that I’m not the person that I was before, that I’m not that unreliable person. And I end up shooting myself in the foot and getting completely burnt out because I am doing multiple things at the same time. Just trying to convince everybody that I am this normal, reliable person who if you’ve given me a job, I will exceed your expectations just so that I don’t have to then explain to you why I am the way I am and why I take 5000 breaks a day or I’m on tick tock when it’s so stressful and I don’t even have time to have lunch. But then I’m constantly thinking like, “Am I just tricking everybody? Am I supposed to be here? Am I tricking everybody?”

“You don’t need a hand, you can swim to shore,”

I’ll be like “yes, I can. Look at me, I’m thriving. Look at me, I’m just like everyone else, I’m thriving.”

Masking in the workplace

I’ve just found a really good way of masking you know, this entire time I’ve just, you know, I’m a chameleon. I’ll just slot myself in when no one thinks I’m any different than they are and I will just struggle on the inside. And, I won’t say anything because it’s so much, I think I’ve said it’s an email. It’s so much easier to suffer on the inside than it is to explain to someone why I am the way I am.

It’s like I love my.. It’s Trixie Mattel, she said “I love myself but I don’t like the way I am.”

I think that is perfect. As an ADHD – ADHD person, you know? I love what I can do. But I don’t like the process of, you know how we got to A to B. You know, it’s like it could have been so much more efficient, but it didn’t happen the way you thought it was gonna happen.

Can you talk a little bit about your MBA and why are you doing it?

When I finally finished my first degree as a graphic designer, that was the only time I’d ever gotten A’s and that made me so happy.

I did a little graphic designing and then I went flying and then I got made redundant and I had to fall back on to my, my graphic design degree again. And through that whole process, I’ve had a massive… I took a massive pay redundancy, a massive pay cut and the redundancy and I thought I never want to be in a position where I couldn’t go and grab a job that I wanted to do or I was holding myself back.

And so COVID for me was a double edged sword. And so… it was, it was just the right slow down that I didn’t feel like I had to fight like everyone else, that I’m not competing with all my other classmates who either have their own fashion brand, or working at an agency and it’s super successful and I love that they’re doing that. And then for me, I felt like I took a massive step back, going into graphic design or going back into the industry again. And I thought, well, I’m going to make… I’m going to be useful. I’m going to… I’m going to you know, I’m going to be proactive. I’m going to use this time wisely because that’s what everyone else does.

And I’m going to study and I’m gonna go back to studying, I’m gonna get my master’s and I’m gonna, you know? To be honest, I don’t even know what I’m gonna do with my master’s. You know, it’s probably just another overcompensation thing that I am doing. I say this now, but probably in 10 years, I’d be like, I’m so glad I did this MBA. Oh my God, look at me now. But right now I can only see as far as my nose. I love it though.

I love that, I’ve gone back to uni. And I’m not how I was when I first started. I’m so much more engaged. And because of all these coping mechanisms that I have, I get to enjoy school one more time, but at a higher level. And I get to involve myself in these deeper discussions, and I don’t feel like I’m falling behind. Even though I kinda do, but eh, that’s a discussion for later.

But um, yeah, but I really do feel that it’s an overcompensation thing. I’m just doing it because I want to prove to everybody that I can do it.

How does imposter syndrome impact you?

It really stops me from putting myself in positions of power, not power. That’s the wrong way to say it, but I feel like I have the right stuff to progress in my career. But there is a lot of the, what ifs, you know, you don’t know. You’re not supposed to know everything. But do I have enough tools to be able to cope in a different setting or in a setting where I have a lot more responsibility?

And I think that’s – that’s the responsibility for me equals power because I want to… I love to inspire and work with a massive team of people. I want to be able to be the person that I wish someone else was for me and be able to lead a group of people that way.

But at the same time, this impostor syndrome is like you do not have, you have a lot more growing.

You’re only young, you don’t have nearly enough life experience, how… and you still hold on to real childish you know, petty shit. How is, how can you expect anyone to follow you if you are not the person that you know? It’s a vicious cycle. so it’s sort of like oh yeah, look hey, I’ve fixed that. and oh, no, no, no, no, no. What about this thing over here?

And, it just goes around and around and around. So I find, yeah. And I think staying in the same place, just helps… Like I know this place, this place is familiar. Yes,

I want to be in a higher position but at the same time, you are not ready for it.

That’s what’s constantly happening.

Where do you even start when it comes to understanding and supporting people with ADHD?

You’ll get people who struggle immensely. And then you’ll get people like me who are just like, we’re just… we’re there… You know?

You probably think of us as the lazy type, or the procrastinator or whatever. But it’s not that we don’t like the work that we’re doing or we don’t take pride in what we’re doing. It’s just a certain way to cope. And, you know, I feel like a lot of positive reinforcements, or you know, you’re doing well, continuous conversation, all those sorts of things, I think really help with people who think and work differently.

And who knows, this could help with other people who don’t have ADHD, but you know never thought of actually doing something different.

What’s it like having ADHD to you? / How does your mind process tasks?

For normal people, it’s moving from A to B, right? But for me I find, I’ll start at A, muck around with M. Maybe do a little X, Y, Z and then, I’ll then remember to go back to B and then when I finally get there, I’ve wasted half the day but we got there, we got there.

So, yeah, so it sort of… For me it’s like taking the long way around.

What do you see is a strength of ADHD in your work environment?

Weird, weird ideas, and did I love that. I love… I love my current… Oh, I love being creative. I love being able to find the path within the bush, wherever you – wherever you are, you know? I love problem solving, that’s what I absolutely love, creative problem solving especially. And I think being neurodivergent, it allows you to think outside of the box. It’s sort of like picking up on the subtle, subtleties that other people may not necessarily think of, you know? Doing tasks a certain way because not only is it more efficient, but you know, you kill two birds with one stone that way, or I guess considering other possibilities other than just your normal… You know? I don’t know how to explain it. But like, yeah, just your normal…

What is normal, you know? But your s… what is standard?

I can’t use that either but you know, we… I think being able to think outside of the box. I think that’s absolutely a major win for being Neurodivergent. And I guess for me it’s really being able to consider others in – in my small capacity. It’s sort of like yes okay, everyone is doing it this way but I mean, if we do it this way we include more people because I’m pretty sure there’s more people that think like I do, so it’s more inclusion that way so, yeah.

What do you think is the problem with employers, is it the fear of confrontation or the lack of wanting to understand?

Maybe it’s that expectation that everyone else is like everyone else and if my other colleagues can do it, why aren’t you performing like her?

I think it’s that, the lack of understanding or even just the lack of reach because I mean, it wasn’t until this year that I’ve learned terms like Neurodivergency or considered, even considered that I could potentially have some form of ADHD throughout my life.

I feel the conversation never came up because they were either stressed, it’s because of the outward because the bottom… because the bottom line was it meant they were stressed. And why should I then have the capacity to then go to someone who’s constantly been making mistakes and actually make room for them? I feel it’s more of a leadership issue than maybe a person to person issue, you know? It’s sort of like, I’ve got my quotas to fill. It’s not filled. This person is stupid. What are you doing? You know? Probably not in that terms. You know, I’m just summarizing. This person wasn’t an absolute, you know, they were lovely, but I feel that I probably wasn’t helping the situation either, being how I was. So it’s, I guess it is still a two way street.

So I never actually got, got to her and said to her, this is not working for me. How can we work together? But I think that comes from a very mature point in your life where you can actually sit back and say I also have a part in – in all of this. And I need to work together but starting out you’re new, you know? You can’t talk to your boss like that. What the hell?

No, you got bills to pay, can’t be saying no, I need help. No, you just gotta close your eyes, look down and continue to work as normal and just hope that something changes.

Yeah, I need to pay bills, what the hell? Yeah, and I think it’s a sign of weakness, right? So like kids or young kids, depending on how you were brought up, going to your superior and saying shit, you know I am – I’m not what you probably thought I am and I actually need help. I don’t know how to ask and I don’t think people know how to ask, especially Neurodivergent people.

What’s something you wish employers did that could make things easier for you?

A proper constructive conversation. So that’s what I was never given. I would get reprimanded. But not a proper, let’s sit down. What’s happening? Why are you doing it that way? Or how can we make it better for you?

Or potentially give me a set of rules or a set of – a set of, like a checklist of… these are the things that in order to complete XYZ need to be done. And at any point that you are unsure. Give me a call.

And that’s all I needed, was someone to be,

ah shit, you fucked up, that’s okay. We’re gonna, we’re gonna learn from this

instead of,

You’re the reason why we’re losing money. You’re the reason why job after job is – is not completed to standard, you’re not meeting your quota. What are you doing?

You know? I feel like because of that, I tried to be that person for someone else because it is a shit feeling to not only not understand why you’re not like everyone else, but why the shit just constantly keeps happening and you’re like, when will it ever end? Am I pla…? Is this going to be the rest of my life?

And I mean if – if, if someone is looking to support someone, it is literally to be able to sit down and have that conversation because the person probably doesn’t know that they are that way. And they’re taking on a lot more than what they can actually choose. So it’s sort of like, will a checklist help? Do you want me to come in and check in on you every half hour, every hour? Do you want to sit with me for 10 minutes in the morning to see, you know, these are things that you’ve got on today? What do you want me to help you with? Do you want to help me? Do you want me to help you feel more accountable for certain areas? And at any stage in this process? Have that conversation and tell me what works for you.

Because I think anybody can just be like, here’s a list of things that you can do, but if it doesn’t work for you, it’s not going to fix the problem. But at any point. I mean, I feel like Neurodivergent people can find different ways to get from A to B, you know? And maybe if we go to F and G, you know, we might find a really cool solution to be you know, so, yeah.